Welcome to the jungle

UUhhhh.. Are your telling me this candidate has zero experience on any Town or County boards, zero experience within chapel hill groups and has not advocated before council before? Town board and committee memberships are invaluable in helping people understand how the council works and what issues they routinely deal with. Importantly, even on unelected boards citizens VOTE on matters and build up a record and reputation for what they do that becomes known by the community. Both Ed Harrison and Mark Klienschmidt more or less talk about the same things but there was one key vote on which they diverged that will certainly make some people vote for one and not the other. Votes, records and experience do matter.

There is also some difference I think between volunteering on your own time or working for a non-profit and working for a billion dollar corporation that targets latinos in every large market not just Durham. Ford, IBM and Hewlett-Packard also serve the latino community.
http://www.insideselfstorage.com/articles/4b1world.html

Alan said - " For example, it would have been great to have her there during the leaf-blower debate to talk about how many family's lives would have been severely impacted economically had the blowers been banned."

besides feeding a stereotype, most people considered the leaf blowing bans kinda silly, impossible to enforce and confusing to have different time limits during the week from the weekend. I don't think any candidates are going to run on leaf blowers in their platform - it's a red herring issue. (as an aside most leaf blowing is done on UNCs campus by white guys )

Personally, I care a little more about what someone will do when they face a critical vote. The council has been and will be very aggressive on "affordable housing" and I suspect most if not all candidates will support this and sound the very similar on their platforms.

Working for B of A and targeting latinos in durham is not enough for me personally to vote for someone but I'm sure it will be more than enough for others, that's the beauty of democracy.

this herald article had some weird language describing candidate Riemer
http://www.herald-sun.com/orange/10-633609.html
Riemer, who speaks Spanish fluently, described herself as Hispanic.

I wonder if the reporter checked her registration.
http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/votersearch/results22_bert.asp?vr=5815000500...

helena, I do not think that the fact that Tonya's voter registration says "not hispanic/non latino" means anything, because they have only been capturing that information for new registrations the last 5 years and Tonya has been registered since 1996 or before.

As a non Chapel Hillian looking in, I must say that I find this long, engaging thread on local elections fascinating and heartening. I wish this kind of conversation was going on in every community with local elections (a distressing number of local races do not feature serious competition this year, by the way).

Ruby and all the posters here deserve commendation.

gerryc -

what should be disconcerting is that Candidate Riemer despite living in chapel hill for 9 years in the article has barely voted.

compare Mark Kleinschmidts voter registration and record to hers.

http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/votersearch/results22_bert.asp?vr=2715009400...

http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/votersearch/results3_bert.asp?vr=00000015942...

http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/votersearch/results22_bert.asp?vr=5815000500...

http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/votersearch/results3_bert.asp?vr=00000015055...

the ethnicity issue is interesting.

gerryc - you appear to be right about the ethnicity category.. although it's puzzling that it's not consistent with all long time voters.

It really doesn't matter to me anyway it's Just Alan seems to offer that as his biggest reason to support a candidate.

what I do find disturbing is that the public is expected to vote for someone with no public record or government involvement who doesn't seem to be one who cares to much about voting

http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/votersearch/results3_bert.asp?vr=00000015055...

there's 3 total votes in 9 years - NONE in primaries which for instance around here de facto determine the county commissioners. and happened to not vote in the very close 2000 presidential election.

compare this to Mayor Mike Nelson's 17 votes during this period.
http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/votersearch/results3_bert.asp?vr=00000005310...

Hey Dan -
Dan said - "Hispanic bankers living in Meadowmont? "

that's Hispanic EXECUTIVE bankers living in Meadowmont to you sir...

I find it somewhat disappointing that we might think that a black or hispanic candidate is going to better represent the black and latino minorities in Chapel Hill. Such candidates certainly might have a better appreciation for the needs of those constituencies, but there is no reason that a non-blabk or non-hispanic candidate cannot do so as well or better. I would hope that anyone elected to Council will represent all Chapel Hillians once they take their seat in the chamber. I think all of the current Council members have tried hard to do so and have worked to address many of the issues confronting minorities. This, of course is quite different than the current resident of the White House who believes that he only represents those who voted for him.

GeorgeC - here here! I agree with you completely... I was just trying to see if Alan advocating for Riemer had anything else to say because the record in Chapel Hill over the last 9 years is very sparse.

Personally with so many needs and vacant spots on Town and County boards that go unfilled - I don't think I could ever vote for someone who didn't have some previous dedication/interest to local government or have something very unique and intersting to say that no one else is saying.

Just to be clear, I didn't say I definitely was supporting Riemer, but that based on her credentials, she's my early choice. I don't know her or anything special about her, but if she gets the support of recognizable Hispanic leaders in this community, then that's good enough for me.

Frankly, I don't care if she never voted; we're not electing a President or Senator, and many younger people don't start developing a political consciousness until well into their 20's, or even beyond. I'm not saying that's good, but it is what it is.

As to Dan Coleman's ridiculous assertions about someone taking a $300,000 loan and calling the amount of interest a scam: Sorry Dan, you're very well informed on many issues, but you join the vast majority of Americans who flunk financial literacy. I'll simply point out 2 concepts to you: time value of money and the after-tax cost of the loan.

As to whether B of A indulges in questionable practices in non-prime lending, I don't know the answer. As to whether they are among those who make outrageous amounts on credit-card lending: BINGO! But if Riemer's job is to truly help Hispanic families get financing to become homeowners, then chances are it's a positive thing. And if her role as director of the Latino credit union was substantive, that's a really positive thing. The fact is that there are very few such institutions catering to needs of no-bank-history Hispanics in this country.

BTW, the real problem with predatory-type lending comes on refinances and home-equity loans and lines that are made by the lower tiers of lending institutions. I'm not defending B of A and its predatory takeovers of other banks, but I'm not going to condemn somebody working for it just on that fact alone.

Finally, it's laughable to deny the importance of having actual minority representation on the council, and the school board for that matter -- even in "liberal" Chapel Hill. I'm a runner who goes through many of our nicer neighborhoods at night, and I get a few strange looks with my headband and oversized white shirts. I guarantee you that if I was a dark-skinned runner doing that, I'd be drawing stares and possible police escorts. You need to face the reality of being a minority to truly understand how important it is to be represented by someone who has lived in your shoes. I don't know if Riemer really fits the bill, but Thorpe surely does.

Alan,
I agree that it is important to have minority representation on the council but can't that representation be color-blind? I think the most important thing is to have a majority of council members that is compassionate and empathetic with the issues of the minorities. The progress we have made thus far on civil rights and other minority issues, while still far from where we need to be, has only come about through the actions of a majority of the elected officials. Hopefully the issues and concerns of our minorities in Chapel Hill will be topics that ALL of the candidates will be asked to address as part of their campaign platforms. Then we can elect those candidates who will best address those concerns, irregardless of the color of their skin or where they were born or the accent of their speech.

Ruby,
You're right - it almost always requires an "instigator" to get the ball rolling on minority issues. If if that is the most important role of a minority Councilperson I have no problem with that. But I'd hate to see such Councilpersons focus only on those issues benefitting their constituencies and not show interest and concern in the issues affecting the rest of the community as well. I think it is possible to do both - and do do them well. My comments to Alan were simply meant to say that being a member of a minority group should not automatically qualify a candidate to lead the efforts for that group on Council. And not being a member of a minority group should not automatically exclude a candidate from doing so as well. That is why I think it will be important to hear how each of the candidates proposes to serve the underserved minorities, whether they are a member of that group or not.

Bill Thorpe has a long history on the town council, much
longer than the two incumbents in the race. Bill's
voting record on all town-wide issues, not only on
minority-related issues, should decide whether he is
returned to the council.

Dan - Unless you work at Bank of America and become the leak for predatory lending.

"Who are the Victims of Predatory Mortgage Lending?

http://www.calreinvest.org/campaigns/predatory.html

Predatory lenders also seek out homeowners with limited knowledge about finance or who have limited English skills. Consequently, predatory lenders tend to target low- to moderate-income households or areas with non-English speaking ethnic groups. Many times, these areas are minority-populated areas which are underserved by traditional banks."

A phillip morris scientist who was banished leaked internal documents about their company policies and these and other leaked memos supported the governments cases so in this case one out of their thousands of employees actually did improve public health by working at philip morris.

http://www.ndsn.org/jan96/tobacco.html

N&O feature today on young candidates in Chapel Hill-Carrboro
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/orange/story/2704975p-9142474c.html(excerpts below)
Young hopefuls buck the odds
Candidates in their 20s have filed to run for public office this fall in Chapel Hill and Siler City
Mark Chilton joined the Chapel Hill Town Council at 21.
By MATT DEES, Staff Writer

CHAPEL HILL -- It takes ambition and considerable chutzpah for young people in their early 20s to run for public office, local politics typically being the purview of wonky middle-agers.

It takes an insatiable work ethic and a wise-beyond-one's-years presence to actually win, said Mark Chilton, who as a 21-year-old wunderkind nabbed a seat on the Chapel Hill Town Council in 1991.

"People look at a young guy and kind of say, 'He's some kind of joker, he's not for real,' " said Chilton, a current Carrboro alderman seeking that town's mayoral seat. "But I got out there and was a really serious candidate, and people came to realize I had sound ideas."

Two Chapel Hill twentysomethings and a 21-year-old Siler City man will try to follow similar footsteps this fall.

Jason Baker, 21, a rising junior at UNC-Chapel Hill, and Walker Rutherfurd, 24, a recent graduate of the university, are running for the Chapel Hill Town Council.

Relative youngsters seeking local seats is not so rare in the Triangle with its many universities.

One actually winning is.

County elections officials don't track the ages of candidates in past races, so they had to rely on memory.

Carolyn Thomas, Orange County's elections director, said UNC-CH students do run for local seats, though she said it doesn't happen every election. Other than Chilton, the last young candidate to win was then-law student Gerry Cohen in 1973, Thomas said.

Cohen served six years -- twice seeking the mayor's seat unsuccessfully during that time -- before resigning in 1979. He now works as the director of bill drafting at the General Assembly.

George Beswick, now an attorney in Morehead City, won a local seat as a law student. He was elected to the Carrboro Board of Aldermen in 1975 and served until 1977.

Also in 2003, 20-year-old N.C. State University student Zack Medford ran for the Raleigh City Council. He challenged in court a board of elections ruling barring him from running because he wasn't turning 21 until a week after the election. He won the case.

He lost the race.

That leaves Chilton as the recent poster child for a successful young campaigner.

He went door to door for weeks, emphasizing issues that went beyond the end-the-noise-ordinance scope of typical college seniors. That got him key endorsements from the local NAACP, the Sierra Club and the Independent Weekly.

It was just enough for a fourth-place finish and a claim to the last available seat.

"I think the challenge that lies ahead for any young candidate is to prove they've done their homework and have intelligent opinions about issues other than issues of obvious concern to their main constituency: students," Chilton said.

"Unless there are huge changes in student voter turnout, the young candidate is going to need to speak to middle-class homeowners and lower-income renters, as well as students."

Baker said he plans to do that, but he also thinks he can draw out many student voters.

He registered voters last fall, and said with UNC-CH students making up roughly half of the town's population, the council needs a student voice.

"I wanted to run because I think the Chapel Hill Town Council, as it stands, is somewhat unrepresentative of the community we live in," he said. "I think it's important to convince the students to not just look at themselves as university students. They need to see Chapel Hill is not just their playground. It's also the place they live."

Rutherfurd served as president of the Inter-Fraternity Council and as chairman of the student board of elections.

He works for Liquidia Technologies, a Research Triangle Park firm that makes a liquid substance that crystallizes when exposed to light, a product with a variety of medical uses.

A registered Republican with a business degree, Rutherfurd describes himself as a moderate.

Though Chapel Hill races are nonpartisan, the town is heavily Democratic. No current council member is a Republican.

"Unfortunately, labels get thrown around with a lot of ease," Rutherfurd said. "I'm a fiscal conservative. I feel like the town could exercise more fiscal restraint. But I'm not going to make a decision until I have heard from and considered exhaustively the different perspectives.

"I've fallen in love with Chapel Hill," he added, "and I feel this is a good way for me to stay involved."

I read Dan Coleman's opinion piece about the CH town
council elections in this morninig's CH Herald. (Sorry
I don't have a link to it; Dan can you post it?)
One of the points he made was that for Bill Thorpe to
win and maintain a black seat on the council, Bill would
have to do much better than he did when he last ran.

I got curious. Here are the numbers from the 1991 election
when Bill, then a 3-term (I think) incumbent last ran.

Herzenberg 4803 Incumbent
Wilkerson 4476 Incumbent
Capowski 4073
Chilton 3012
Ewell 2549
McCurdy 2348
Tripodi 2348
Thorpe 1598 Incumbent
Urquhart 1319
Joesting 831
Bass 792
Peterson 309

Even if we ignore political philosophy, platforms,
voting records on issues, (all valid subjects for
future debates), it is fair to say that Bill's performance
was extremely poor -- an incumbent in 8th
place with only 1/3rd of the votes of the leader.
Dan was the master of understatement when he
stated that Bill will have to do better this time to win.

English can at times be tricky: "black candidates" or candidates who are black?