Bridge Building, Chamber Style

Terri,
I listed to that report as well and it reminded me that Orange County has a niche - the environmentally friendly, sustainable, alternative niche. Can we survive as a niche market alone? I don't know. My wife and I were commenting the other night what turn around U-Mall had done in the last 5 years. I am not aware of how much income they generate, but the number of shoppers has risen drastically (to my eyes).

Do we have to sell out to Mega-corporations to produce big-box stores in their image? Or, can we do something else that will draw shoppers from across the triangle?

Can we influence more corporations that fit into our "niche" to relocate here? We have four organic food stores in Orange County, what better place for a distribution center or headquarters?

Would we be willing to give tax breaks to lure environmentally friendly companies into Orange County?

When I lived in Mebane, I always imagined what a friendly environment its downtown would be for a computer tech company. Something that wouldn't need warehouse space, just office space. Could we make sections of Chapel Hill available at low tax rates for start-up companies in high-paying tech sectors? Jobs that might actually draw citizens and shoppers to Chapel Hill.

Forgive all the questions, call it a crash-course in sustainable business if you like.

Lastly, I guess when looking at debt there are always three things to do. Bring in more income, cut extras, and if things don't get better, figure out what are truly necessities. How often does the town sit down and have a real debate about the "budget" in general? A public debate carried out online, in the newspapers, in meetings, etc.?

Robert--I think you are asking the right questions so please don't apologize for them. I can give you a couple of reasons why I think we are perceived as anti-business: 1) rents are so high that its difficult for new companies to start out here, 2) Chapel Hill (don't know about Carrboro) makes it difficult for businesses to do business with the town (no online services, long wait times for permits, etc.), and 3) business fees/taxes are expected to pay for most of the very expensive infrastructure in both Chapel Hill and Carrboro, as illustrated in the discussion about dumpster trash collection in this years budget advisory board recommendations). If we had more businesses, #3 wouldn't be so burdensome to the few.

Fred--I'm not sure what your point is, but I will agree that paraphrasing a paraphrased paraphrase is not good practice. However, I think there's enough evidence embedded throughout OrangePolitics and other local media to support a claim that this community is perceived by many to be antibusiness--whether Dan knows those folks or not! :)

Here's a quote from a local CEO (Brad Brinegar) who just moved his thriving business (McKinney and Silver) from Raleigh to downtown Durham

"He related the many virtues that drew him to relocate McKinney's headquarters to Durham: "Creative people need funk," he said. "Chapel Hill didn't enter the mix because they don't want business ... Cary didn't enter the mix because they're not funky." Raleigh, he said, didn't know what it wanted to be. "

Source: http://www.indyweek.com/durham/2004-10-13/triangles4.html

I've seen there space in the American Tobacco Complex...it's really amazing. Durham seems to be doing a good job of renewing some of it's resources (abandoned tobacco buildings) and turning weaknesses into strengths.

Terri, I am in agreement with you. I took exception to your "Since Aaron Nelson feels this is an anti-business community" statement. Where's any evidence that Aaron thinks this?

Actually, we don't know what Aaron said, and I don't think it's about the fortitude or the lack of it to explain what he did say. If he has a problem with what was written, explaining would probably be best done where they appeared.

Chris,
Lest your comment get lost in the He Said/He Didn't quagmire, Wow! Who would have ever thought that Durham would get the Funky Business Environment award instead of Carrboro? Chapel Hill has moved on from funky (long ago it seems), but Carrboro? I always think of Austin's unofficial motto when I'm in Carrboro - Keep Austin Weird.
Granted, I'm not sure anyplace can compete with those old Tobacco Barns.

Terri,
Well number two is just ridiculous. This is a community with a business district, why are the services so unhospitable? This was the kind of thing I had in mind when I mentioned evaluating the priorities. Perhaps we should defer some money for a year to make Chapel Hill more appealing to small businesses (online apps for instance). More small businesses mean more local jobs, more revenue, more local purchasing, all of which brings more money into the local economy in the long run.

Robert:

I just dug that up because it was one businessperson's opinion of the attitude towards business in Chapel Hill.

As for Carrboro vs. Durham, as someone who moved from Chapel Hill to Durham in December, I'd say the following:

1) Durham is cheaper than Carrboro for residential housing by a long shot, and you have a lot more options. I saw a 900 square foot mill house in Carrboro listed from $225,000.

2) Durham is centrally located compared to Carrboro (i.e. it's easier to commute to Durham from Raleigh than to Carrboro from Raleigh.).

3) McKinney and Silver rented 35,000 square feet in the American Tobacco complex. Is there a commercial space near the Weav that has that much space?

4) Durham has a lot more diversity than Carrboro, IMHO.

Having said all that, I wish Durham could get something like the Weaver Street Market with it's awesome lawn in or near downtown Durham. Plus, the Chapel Hill-Carrbor schools are much more highly rated than the Durham schools.

Fred,

It is an interesting angle that you brought up - that we collectively through government policies mandate that we seek the best price deal. You then stated that on the other hand "we want average citizens to suspend rational economic decision making and buy higher priced items for other reasons."

First of all, it's more indicative of our consensus attitude toward how we measure the best deal than what necessarily is the most sensible approach. Currently - and the corporate global economy loves this approach - we measure it in almost purely monetary terms. This is faith-based capitalism at work whereby we hold sacred an abstract sytem in which monetary wealth & currency are the ultimate meaures of success.

I think more individuals and households will have to lead the way on rational economic decision-making that includes more than just monetary considerations. Hopefully, that will lead to a change in how we collectively behave through governmental policies.

Mark C., that's exactly the point. When we don't buy the cheepest of something, it's become our rational process causes us to buy a particular product after factoring several things into our decision. But if Charmin is cheaper at Sam's Club than from a local vendor, then you are doing what Mark M. suggests if you make that conscious decision to purchase it locally instead of at Sam's..

If the Chapel Hill or Carrboro governments, or OWASA have to buy three vehicles, what's the chances of them being purchased locally? Our tax dollars provided to our govenment don't stay local because the local businesses can't compete on price with some larger business elsewhere.

Hence, if we want people to buy locally and alter what they consider a rational decision, more must be done than just criticizing their decisions to buy comparable items at a cheaper price some place other than locally.

Fascinating discussion . . . with many threads worth following.

I wonder if first hand knowledge of running/owning a business might color some of the different perspectives presented here.

For example, my own companies have to reach far beyond local communities to generate sustainable businesses -- with most of my own clients being in California and Europe. Yet my companies employ several hundred people here in the Triangle and contribute signficantly to the local economy. Which model does that approach fit with?

On another note, it is my view that the business community is seen by many progressives as largely homogeneous -- and may be held in some contempt. Perhaps that's just personal history, but it does feel that way when I read some of the comments in this thread. There is an undercurrent of suspicion and acrimony that colors the discussion and diverts discussion from practical considerations.

Business-minded people could make significant contributions to how our local governments operate, and it is a shame more of them are not engaged. Especially people who have managed larger businesses with enlightened practices. I'm not saying anything negative about sole proprietorships and small mom-and-pops. It's just that they don't have much practical experience with a host of management issues such as benefits, compensation, HR policies, etc., etc. I think we'd all be better off if our elected officials had direct experience with the best practices used in larger business organizations.

Cheers!

James,
Forgive my nosiness, but I Googled you and found your company is in Raleigh. Also, that you started and ran your own company. So, you are a good person to answer this - what would it take for your own company, or your new employer, to relocate into Chapel Hill? If your customers are all long-distance, then Raleigh isn't central to the operations, so what is the reason? Gravity?
Robert

James,
I agree that it's a shame more business people don't get involved in government since they would bring a wealth of important experience and different perspectives to the table. Unfortunately, a lot of the most successful and entrepreneurial business people, even after they "retire", get the urge to do it again and start all over with another enterprise. Occasionally they bring their experience and expertise to a worthy non-profit and that is certainly great and commendable but perhaps more of them could consider government as their non-profit of choice.
I suspect that a lot of the business people don't want to deal with political campaigning. These executives aren't used to having to "sell" themselves to a large group of people since the most successful have usually only had to deal with a limited number of colleagues or superiors that had to be convinced of their value to the organization. Perhaps it's an ego thing. For a successful business executive to run for office and lose might certainly be a downer but there are other ways (advisory committees, etc.) through which they might be able to participate although I suspect that ego might still restrain some of the most able.

James--I'm sure my self from ten or even five years ago would fall off his seat to hear me say it, but I largely agree with you. In addition to bringing knowledge about how the business community works, progressive businesspeople can also lend credibility to progressive causes--not so easy to stereotype them as 'anti-business' if some business people are signed on. In general, its highly dysfunctional for our society that there is a polarization between the business community and the enlightened priesthood of environmentalists, activists, social workers, academics, etc. Neither group can, by itself, adequately lead. 'The community' also needs to be brought to the table. If the best of what each group brings to the table can be combined, and the worst can be left aside, we could fashion non-dogmatic policies that effectively achieve progressive goals. Otherwise, to look all the way back at the quote that first began this thread, environmentalists are likely to be stereotyped as anti-business, or, for that matter, anti-working class.

George, many of the business people I know here in the area who are interested in public office are concerned about the time commitment, both campaigning and in service. Many small business owners work long hours.

Egos aren't the exclusive province of the business sector---some of the most egotistical and arrogant people I have ever met have been in "noble" or "creative' professions. The most successful business friends I have are always ready to try a better idea, because a better idea translates into a better working environment, which keeps everyone happy. Serving on advisory committees is a great way for more people, including business people, to serve the community , and that is a good suggestion.

My own limited experience with advisory groups has been mutually beneficial. Before being involved in the process, I admit that I often wondered why public bodies couldn't "just make a decision." Now I understand and value the consensus building that occurs so that everybody owns the decision, and recognize that the process takes more time than a decision I might for my own small universe.

Conversely, I think my insights as a small business owner and partner have been well considered by my colleagues and provided insight to some people who have never looked at issues from the angle I have.

Bottom line, we all live in this community together. We contribute different things, and the more we interact, the better our community becomes. If we take some time to get to know each other before we start stereotyping each other, we would probably be better served.

Goodness! I've been Googled.

Actually Robert, I'm a principal in several companies, one of which is headquartered in Raleigh. The others are here in Chapel Hill and in Virginia.

The Chapel Hill companies are, by far, larger and more national in scope.

All of our businesses were located in Chapel Hill for more than fifteen years. In fact, during most of the 90s, we had more than 300 employees working on West Franklin Street every day.

What did it take to drive us out of downtown? Mostly it was uncertainty about parking. We leased Lot 5 for several years and it was essential to our businesses, which had employees living all over the Triangle. The on-again-off-again plans for Lot 5 made our own business planning very difficult.

And now that parking will be even more diminished, we would find downtown even less attractive.)

It's worth noting that many people in our companies are 100% telecommuters. We have people in California, New England and the midwest . . . all of whom work from home.

That darn gravity will trip you up every time!

Dan,
I don't think that either James or I said that there weren't business people involved in government. You readily pointed out a number of very qualified individuals. I think the question was why there weren't more of such business people and I think it often comes down to time available or the willingness to run a campaign or both. Although many jobs certainly aren't 9 to 5, anyone who has started a business can tell you that 16-hr days are probably more of the norm. And many of those people are probably the ones whose concerns are least addressed because no one is there to speak on their behalf. How many people want to sit through a Town Council meeting after they've been up and working since 5AM?

James, your business sounds a lot like many of the ones I see coming to the area. Not location dependent for customers, but definitely making a location choice for many of the people who work for the business. I have one business client now who probably doesn't have a single client in the entire state of NC, but everyone who works there wants to live in Chapel Hill and is willing to hop a plane or do videoconferencing with clients all over the world in order to live in the Southern Part of Heaven.

They usually tell me they located here for the schools, the cultural life, access to the intellectual talent of the area b/c of the good universities, and the relative proximity to New York and Washington DC. The schools seem to be the biggest draw--and the principals seem to live in either Southern Village or Meadowmont.

Dan,
You're right - it's all about having the time. My definition of a "concerned citizen" (or business person, etc) is one who shows up at a Town Council meeting because they're worried about a homeless shelter being built in their neighborhood or a leaf-blower ban. An "involved citizen" (or business person, etc.) is one that shows up routinely at meetings because they're interested in solving the homeless problem, the downtown revitalization, etc. It takes a lot more energy and time to be involved than simply concerned and it seems that time is something that many of us are losing a grasp on in our society that so strongly encourages multi-tasking.
I still think that a business person working full-time at a growing business will find it very hard to be involved on a day-to-day basis. It's not impossible but it is difficult.
Regarding the C of C, while "paid lobbyists" may work well in Washington, I think strength in numbers might do better in this area.

I've been reading the materials from Minnesota's Citizens League where they publish position papers around the overall theme of building how to prepare the state for the new knowledge economy, without leaving anyone behind. In other words, how do we develop a business environment that addresses issue of smarth growth, social justice, and fiscal equity. http://www.citizensleague.net/index.html

Does anyone know of a similar organization here in NC? Orange County?