Tax Revolt?

that there are not any increases yet?

An article in this morning's H-S explains the group that has placedthe signs and is leading the tax revolt.http://heraldsun.southernheadlines.com/orange/10-1099084.cfm

And today the Governator is announcing the layoff of 20,000 state  employees.  Gerry Cohen, please correct me if I am wrong, but our state laws do not allow for citizen-initiated questions on the ballot, like the famous California Prop 13.There is one property tax reform that I think we should investigate, namely the Florida Homestead act, by which the property taxes (not the valuation)  on someone's principle residence cannot increase more than 3 pct (or some inflation index, whichever is smaller) until the house is sold.  This scheme does have flaws, but it keeps long-term residents from being taxed out of their homes.

I spoke with Alice Gordon last night (she was at my precinct meeting).She said (I believe) that the tax office has been instructed to collect the same amount of taxes this year as last.  Since valuations went up, the tax rate will go down.My take away is this: if your valuation went up more than 25% (the average), then your taxes will go up;  if less, they will go down.-- ge

If you are a resident of Wake, Durham, Orange, or Johnston, Cumberland, or Mecklenburg County, you are invited to join a County Taxpayers Association group on LinkedIn. Wake County http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1778167 Orange County http://www.linkedin.com/groups?about=&gid=1784011&trk=anet_ug_grppro Durham County http://www.linkedin.com/groups?about=&gid=1783757&trk=anet_ug_grppro Johnston County http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1809725&trk=hb_side_g Cumberland County http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1810245 Mecklenburg County http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1810257 Please see www.wcta.org for more information. Wake County has had a Taxpayers Association for over 17 years and would be very happy to assist neighboring counties to start their own associations. Please email me if you would like additional information. dnewberry1@nc.rr.comDavid NewberryVice President - Wake County Taxpayers Association

... like a massive tax increase.   As I've mentioned here before, the BoCC is doing for the Orange County GOP what the GOP couldn't possibly ever have done for itself.  I firmly believe that the era of single-party rule in Orange County will end with the next election cycle.  No, there won't ever be a majority of Republicans, but at least there will be a voice for economic moderation.

Inventor61 above says that nothing galvanizes the right like a massive tax increase.  I agree with his statement.  However, here in Orange County, it is the parents of the schoolkids who line up at the budget hearings to say that nothing is too good for little Johnny and if that means higher taxes, then we will pay them.In the H-S article, the tax-revolt group's spokesman described his group as "grayhairs", thus characterizing the dispute as the older versus the younger.  As someone whose little remaining hair is gray,  I find that unfortunate but largely correct.  In one of his biographies, I read that Ben Franklin was unusual in that, as he grew older, he became more liberal.  Chapel Hill and Carrboro probably have more Franklin types than most NC counties, but we are not immune to the age issue.In last year's transfer tax discussions and 2-1 failed referendum, it was the realtors associations, representing a mix of ages, who carried the fight against the tax.  I wonder if they will get involved on this issue.  

Generally speaking, most of these anti-local tax activists are big supporters of astronomical war-spending and corporate welfare policies. Rarely do any of these people have a realistic view of the big picture.

We used to live in Corvallis, OR, another college town where everyone always voted for school funding measures. But that started to change in the 90s as the number of retirees went up and high home prices limited the number of new parents moving in. I was on a school-tax ballot measure campaign and watched an anti-tax group defeat us using the internet and lots of yardsigns just like those popping up around here. So, my advice is don't be too complacent about such movements.

I'm surprised by some of the characterizations here.  Why is the idea of citizens calling a meeting to discuss their mutual concerns about their property taxes considered problematic or not looking at the big picture?   If you have enough people concerned about a issue and organizing around the issue, then I would say that the issue deserves to be heard, whether you "like" it or not.    I know nothing about this group, but they are doing the same thing many other citizens do in this county---puting  an issue out there that is important to them to see how many other like minded people there are. We'll know pretty quickly after the 23rd just how "big" or "problematic" the issue is.   I'm pretty sure my  property taxes have increased every single year that I've owned a home (1985), and the toyal % increase is in excess of the rate of inflation or the increases in my parent's pensions or the increases in  my own income during the same time period.  Go back and read the recent analysis  in the local newspaper that a professor at Kenan Flagler did  if you want  more information.  This is a real concern for a lot of people and shouldn't be dismissed as just a bunch of "anti-tax gray hairs."     Many Orange County residents--young and old---- are about at the tipping point in terms of  their ability to pay more taxes or their interest in doing so, especially when it's unclear what the long term game plan is to effect any real change to the expected annual increase.  One year of holding taxes steady does not consitute a long term strategy or trend towards economic health.    And finally,   there are only two   "alternative revenue options"  which give the average homeowner any  true relief.  One is growing   the non-residential tax base and getting property on the books that is revenue positive to the county and can subsidize homeowners.  The second is growing sales tax revenues and  capturing discretionary dollars.    Neither of those require state approval.    

One thing I'd like to see here is some info on the tax burden over time. One good yardstick for examining public investments in schools can be found by comparing school expenditures as a percentage of the county's total personal income. I did this for the Corvallis OR campaign with Benton county data on personal income and state records on school operating expenditures over several decades. In 1970, school budgets county-wide were 5.6% of total personal income. By 2003, they had fallen to 2.9%.  I tried to apply this yardstick here, but the school records just weren't readily available. The point is can we agree on meaningful yardsticks and data sources? Or is it just going to be an brawl?

Anita, nothing in my two posts above indicates that the anti-tax group shouldn't be allowed to meet and present their views.  In Mark's and my years on the CH Town Council, we strongly encouraged public input.  There are few local governments in the country who receive as much public input as the council does.  As for the "grayhairs" comment, that was the group's own characterization, they way they chose to present themselves.You brought up the issue of increasing sales tax revenue, which has been discussed frequently since I've been involved in local politics.  During my debates with Mark Zimmerman over the transfer tax, he consistently argued that the transfer tax was bad, and that developments such as the proposed Buckhorn Village shopping center, would save the county's schools.  What he didn't do was the math.  The BV center, if it were successful enough to sell 90M of merchandise per year (its projection) would generate 400K of sales taxes per year for the county commissioners, and that revenue stream for twenty years would be enough to build one-ninth of one elementary school.  To build one elementary school, using all sales tax revenues for twenty years, would require the construction of nine BVs or six Southpoints.   I'm no expert on shopping centers, but I doubt if there are enough shoppers in the region to support that many shopping centers.  The problem here is that the bulk of the sales taxes go straight to the state government, which is funded by sales taxes and the state income tax. Like a number of posters above, I don't understand the anti-tax group's comment about "taxation without representation".

I too do not understand the "taxation without representation" comment. We all have a vote. And I had not heard about the name calling on that side. That is not OK. But my point is still that not everyone who is worrying about taxes is a gray haired Republican who doesn't support education. Many of them are seeing taxes price them out of their homes. If your home is paid for and your taxes rise more than your retirement check does, at some point you make some hard decisions. Is that our goal--to price out people who may be "house rich" but cash poor? (And maybe they aren't even all that house rich anymore either). I know our elected officials are concerned about the tax burden. But the fact that most of our electeds did not want an airport in Orange County did not keep the community from organizing about it. Even though the electeds have stated they don't want the waste transfer station on Rogers Road, the residents there still organize as a way to show their solidarity and commitment, give information to the constituents, and make sure people know they are serious. If this tax group is way out there a la California/Florida, then I don't think they will get much support anyway. That's not our community. To Buckhorn: Buckhorn Village's impact was not just a sales tax impact. It also proposed adding over 120 million dollars of non-residential, revenue positive, taxable property to Orange County's coffers, so it is not accurate simply to calculate its value in terms of sales tax. And finally: 15 years ago, when I worked in the real estate development circles, even then the Triangle area had WAY more retail space per capita than the national average for similar communities. We all talked about how highly developed ( or 'overdeveloped" if you want to call it that) the retail market was then and yet the average dollar revenue per square foot was still at or above the national average and continued to increase even as more space came onto the market. This area has defied the conventional wisdom for a long time when it comes to consumption and spending patterns. It will be interesting to see how this economc downturn impacts that data compared to other markets.

Anita's last paragraph is right on, that we are financially different from the rest of the state and country -- here's a major example:  The best thing for us about the Obama stimulus package is its 43 pct increase in the budget of the National Institutes of Health, as well as major increases for the Dept of Energy and National Science Foundation.  UNC-CH  now receives about 600M per year from these sources, and all the researchers and clinicians that I know have struggled against the cuts against science by the Bush administration.   Probably half of that money goes to salaries which ripple through the local economy, etc.etc.Having UNC and UNC Health care as our dominant employers renders irrelevant some of the statistics that are typically used to characterize a town, but allow us to survive national economic downturns.   Measured financially, UNC is less an  undergraduate educational institution than a research and clinical one.  What town in NC wouldn't kill to have a 1.4 B annual, recession-proof payroll within walking distance of its downtown?

Rural Orange County has been overwhelmed at the polls by the Chapel Hill- Carrboro vote for recorded history. Rural residents have historically been at a disadvantage when it came to representation on the County Commission. This contributed greatly to unnecessary rural-urban antagonism and fouled the waters constantly on policy debates. The Democratic Party insiders resisted reform for fair representation at every turn. Recently we had the tepid, lack-lustre change put forth by Moses Carey & others which marginally improves representation but falls short of what rural voters have wanted all these decades. So there remains a deep-seeded feeling of being disenfranchised. What the defenders of the status quo never understood is that when you allow fair representation, fair debate ensues and contrary views get their day on the table and are democratically resolved. The alternative is resentment and distrust, which has been a perennial problem in Orange County. It's gradually easing now with the "marbling" of the county by new residents and the slight increase in better representation afforded by the new system, but it's still there.